Wednesday, 27 December 2006
... thoughts : Chinese Surnames are not Lastnames - What, How and Why?
Chinese Surnames are not Lastnames
- What, How and Why?
They really don't know what to do with names that have surnames in front, do they? I watch with amusement the way surnames are inconsistently listed/reported. Sometimes a Chinese name like Singapore's tabletennis player is listed as Zhang Xueling, and sometimes as Xueling Zhang.
I must commend the recent years sports organisers for they way they no longer insist on throwing Chinese and Korean surnames to the back (lastname) but instead to respect the two cultures. However, admittedly this is creating a little confusion, especially for Chinese names from countries from Singapore and Malaysia where Chinese names have been "westernised" and the surnames thrown to the back. I don't see this in the China Chinese or in the Korean names probably due to the way the names were first submitted to the Olympic committee and hence the "correct" surname placing.
This is really a simple matter of better understanding between the differing cultures. I face this same problem whenever I have to deal with clients from Europe or North America. Despite constant reminders, they still put my surname at the back even on cheques and other such "official" documents, which creates problems for me when I try and cash them or use them in Singapore. This confusing state of affairs has resulted in us having "multiple" versions of our names which we are forced to switch between when dealing with different people and cultures. This is made worse with the use of English names. To use the same example above; if Zhang Xueling had an English name like Jill for instance, a simple Chinese name like Zhang Xue Ling (3 characters) suddenly also becomes Xue Ling Zhang or Jill Zhang Xue Ling or Jill Xue Ling Zhang or Jill Zhang X.L. or Jill X.L. Zhang. And mind you, I've seen all these variants used. To make matters worse, a new and disturbing trend is emerging in Singapore where some locals are starting to have Firstnames, Middlename and Lastnames, throwing centuries of tradition down the rubbish chute. This is exaggerbated by the use of Western First & Middlenames, something like Ester Michelle Chan for example. Why?
I was once greatly insulted when meeting an associate from Australia for the first time. In our introductions, I introduced myself in my Chinese name and he abruptly asked me if I had an English name or some other name that would be easier for him to call me by. I recalled the book "Roots" by Alex Haley and how his ancestor by the name of "Kunta Kinte", brought over to the Americas from Africa as "Black Slaves", repeatedly rejected an English name "Toby" that his Master insisted on calling him by, even to the point of having to bear constant beatings and punishments. Not the least amused, I retorted and asked in return if he had a Chinese name instead of his English one so that I could more easily call him by. He at least had the decency to look appropriately apologetic.
My old university in Canada which prides itself as a "Bridgeway to the Pacific Rim" and champions the concept of the "Global Citizen", rather ironically fails to grasp this simple concept. Decades after my graduation, I'm still struggling with the Alumni office and the University to get my name right. I grit my teeth at every Alumni function and at every meeting with visiting University dignatories.
The problem has deteriorated so badly here in Singapore that people without Western names like me, are sometimes portrayed as backward and made to feel ashamed to use our Chinese names in more formal settings. Apparently, our "backward" Chinese names are only good for the local wet market, hawker centres and in the home. They are not good enough in the international arena.
For long suffering multiple named people like me, it is our greatest hope that the world would just learn how to deal with a surname in front and not require us to move our names around just to suit them. Any Westerner would have balked and screamed bl**dy murder if they had to do that to their names. The problem is made worse by inconsistencies in our own policies. Even Singapore Government forms and websites sometimes require the filling in of Firstnames, Middlenames and Lastnames, probably due to the difficulty in modifying off-the-shelf computer software from the US. Non-Asian religions are also to be blamed because, not only do they preach their religious beliefs, they are also rather intolerant of Asian cultures and values in their practices. The Chinese/Korean name is an integral part of our culture just like a Western name is an integral part of the Western culture. It is indeed a testimony to the open-mindedness of Asian cultures in our abilities to adopt as well as understand different naming conventions in our day to day dealing with other cultures but surely, this is going too far.
Allow me to explain the significance of the Chinese/Korean name. The front surname reflects the importance the Chinese/Korean places on the family above self. The second name, eg. Xue in Zhang Xueling's name, is the generation name which places the person into the correct generation so that we will always know who our brothers/sisters/cousins are and more importantly, who our elders are. Finally comes our personal name, eg. Ling which is the person's "actual" name. Often you will find "Ah Ling" used as a term of endearment or as a term of familiarity between close friends and family. This is because, Ling is her "true" name self. A Chinese/Korean is never called by his/her generation name or surname unless in mock seriousness or in more official settings like in the office.
Unlike in Western cultures, our elders are never called by name. It is both insulting as well as disrespectful. There are numerous honorifics used, which loosely translated would be equivalent to the western Auntie, Uncle, Grandfather etc. However, I must admit, there is a prohibitively large number of honorifics to remember especially when there are two separate sets, one for the mother's side of the family, and another for the father's side of the family, and to make matters worse, dependent on whether the person in question is older or younger in family position to your parent. Luckily, for those who don't know the correct honorific, there is a quick fix solution. When in doubt, the use of the terms Brother, Sister, Auntie, Uncle, Grandmother and Grandfather would suffice, but never, ever the person's actual name unless you are sure he/she is of the same of younger generation than you are and not significantly older than you.
Confused yet? Don't be. My name reflects my culture. It is a product of 5000 years of Chinese history and family traditions. It was given to me by my parents and the meanings inherent in my name reflect the hopes and aspirations of my family. My name is what makes me who I am, and it defines who we are as a people. Don't make me take a Western name or have me change my surname into a lastname just to suit you. I take the trouble to pronounce the names from other cultures properly. Do me the curteousy of learning mine. :-)
My name is Liang Jieming (梁傑明).
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hehehe, I had the same problem too. The uni solved the problem by asking me how I wished the name to read on the certificate. I told them the correct way, but by the time I got up to collect it during the graduation ceremony, it was like nothing I was familiar with. That is why, I rather use my Christian name to solve all the funny problems they will give me.
ReplyDeleteBut you see, using your Christian name doesn't solve the problem. It makes it worse. It tells the world that we ourselves don't bother to use our own names or that we don't feel the need to have others understand our names. Does it mean a Fong Wai Cheng or a Huang Fa can't be accepted by the world until he or she becomes William Fong or Charlie Huang? The first native Chinese Protestant Christian Pastor in China was Liang Ah Fa in A.D. 1824. He certainly didn't need to call himself Benjamin... or Toby. Ah Fa was perfectly acceptable.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, if we all stop bothering and use Christian names to make life easier, we lose the very thing we are trying to preserve. You don't have to imagine the consequence. Just look at the Islamic world. Where are the pre-islamic Malay names? Where are the Persian names? Where are the old Egyptian names? Everyone's a Mohammad, an Ali, a Khalid or a Mustapha these days. Would your future be a world of John, Smith and Jones?
umm.. well, you do have a point. However, being a Christian, being baptised with the name, I want to use it. Yes, it is confusing and annoying sometimes. I suppose if we insist hard enough, we would get what we want, that is why you are always Liang Jieming to me.
ReplyDeleteThen baptise new Chinese Christians with their Chinese names. The Russians use Russian names, the Hungarians use Hungarian names, the Germans use German names, the Jews use Jewish names, the English use English names....
ReplyDeleteWhy the double standard?
I had different experiences, in general I have found foreigners very accepting of my name and format. Note, I am taking foreigners as a whole, from Thais (whose family name is behind) to Burmese (who have no family names but none the less their names are often comprised of 2 parts as rendered in English) to Americans. My first trip to the US was only in 2001, and almost all the people I met were business folks. This might account for the fact that they had little trouble with my name. Names can be great ice-breakers as well, explaining to others how to pronounce your name (Koi as in c-o-y, 'coy'), the meanings behind the characters etc.
ReplyDeleteAs a child growing up, I had a western name (It was trendy then, both my parents had such names too) and identified more with that name than my Chinese one. It is the one my family uses even my Grandmother. However as I got older and I got more interested in my roots and traditional culture, I realise just how much more meaningful my Chinese name is. Just as certain Christian denominations will encourage choosing apostolic name such that the Baptised individual may identify more strongly with his faith, I realise my Chinese name has the same significance with regards to my own culture. I thus made the conscious decision to use my Chinese name exclusively after I started working. And among a sea of Asian individuals with 'Western' names dealing with those from other countries I stood out; my name was actually more memorable. I still remember one lady (a retired librarian from Australia) who applauded me for using my Chinese name, deploring the situation back home where she claims many Asian students use a Western name instead.
In the case of Singapore, unless for religious reasons I can't think of a good reason to get Western names. I think some Singaporeans perceive that Western names are cooler and more trendy, much the same way some Chinese are giving themselves Japanese names because they think its cooler as well.
Use it or lose it, we need to get the new generation to embrace and understand their culture and have pride in it, and I can think of no better way to begin than their Chinese names. It is a constant reminder of their origin and culture. Otherwise, we risk raising bananas.
This is B2, back to you, B1.
Actually a number of Churches do baptised the individuals with their Chinese names. In many cases I suspect it is more the choice on the part of the individual or the parents.
ReplyDeleteReally? That is great news!
ReplyDeleteWell, unfortunately not my denomination, we are expected to get new Christian names... in fact, for for baptism I get one name, and my confirmation, I get another...
ReplyDeleteWho chooses the names? My friend who married a Catholic girl, had a name chosen for him that he didn't really like but then he liked his girl...
ReplyDeleteAlthough desirable, there isn't a requirement to convert to Catholic to marry one. My best friend's catholic sister married a guy who remained secular. hehe, unless of course practices vary among Catholic Churches that I am unaware of.
ReplyDeleteYou are right, no compulsion to convert unless you want to do so... As for the choice of name... I believe if you are an adult you are allow to chose your name... I did!
ReplyDeleteOf course we are talking about 'modern' women here who quite naturally put down as requirements that their spouse convert to *their* religion. Not unique to Singapore though, most Indonesian women I know have the same requirements. Oh, for the days when women understood the meaning of 嫁鸡随鸡,嫁狗随狗
ReplyDeletePoor Kit Meng's friend.
嫁鸡随鸡,嫁狗随狗, 嫁猪随猪
ReplyDeleteumm... sound like some one is hankering for the good old days... for guys, not for the ladies... some having great husbands will have nothing to fear, but there are just too many horrible ones outside that would not hesitate to bully or hurt their better halves, (not that I would think you guys would). Those days are over for women, if there are proper communication, I am doubtful that we need to go back to days...
ReplyDeleteAs for conversion, if it does not come from the heart, converting for marriage is actually frowned upon. At least, the priests that I know had always counsel the potential candidates never to convert for the sake of getting married, after all the priest are often quite willing to marry the couple even if they are not of the same faith... except muslims, which is the other way round.
I have many friends getting married in church, and their spouses are of different faiths.. It all boils down to communication... if the couple is in agreement, there is really no problems...
yes but you are missing Ur's point. He is talking about "modern" women who, and I quote him, "put down as requirements that their spouse convert to their religion."
ReplyDeleteSo you see, this phrase 嫁鸡随鸡,嫁狗随狗, is actually refering to guys following the girl. ;)
You brought up an interesting point, but again, there is more than one dimension to baptism names.
ReplyDeleteMany of the baptism names used by Russians are "Slavic" versions of Biblical names - like the name Pietor (sp?) is the Russian version of Peter.
And Juan is the Spanish version of John in English, or Yohannes in Hebrew. Nicholas, Nikolai etc.
It was up to the baptised individual to decide which of the "translated" version of his baptised name in different languages.
A Chinese Christian, could, choose to be baptised as Matthew, or Ma-Tai.
But if he is English-speaking and conducts his faith in the English language, being baptised as "Matthew" is just being consistent to himself.
Such a westernised mindset that assumes women were subservient to their husbands, and that is what men want to go back to. Not at all.
ReplyDelete#1 Women were not the slave-like figure popularly portrayed. In my family (Hakka) women are traditionally well-respected and in many matters of the household she has the say. In fact it is the complementary roles that man and women play that make for a harmonious household and ultimately a healthy and happy one.
#2 We do not want subservient wives anymore than you women want to be. What we want are a meeting of minds, one with her own ideas, the understanding of complementary roles and mutual respect for each other.
My use of 嫁鸡随鸡,嫁狗随狗 was simply to illustrate that women use to understand the philosophy of following your husband through thick and thin, the understanding that you are marrying into *his* family. Its the idea of complementary roles in marriage. This is in contrast with some women who these days see marriage as another notch on their lifepath, The World as It Should Be according to Herself. The imagine the world to revolve around them.
Since we are on Angry Boar's blog, here's another line I was just reminded of: 生为梁家的人,死为梁家的鬼
My understanding is that there never was a requirement to get a biblical name in the first place. So if the English can continue to use names like Robert. Geoffery, William while still remaining Christians, thus so should Chinese be allowed to be baptised with their Chinese names (and not sinocised versions of Christian names).
ReplyDeleteBut I am unaware of the various doctrinal differences among the denominations, so the requirement could well be mandated certain Churches.
Western naming conventions are not homogeneous either. In most case, we adress people as first name - surname (François Charton), but on official documents, the opposite way generally prevail, (Charton François). For married women, it is customary to refer to them by the name of their husband (madame Charton, or even, in polite adresses, Madame François Charton, yes you use the first name of the husband as well), but on official papers, they usually retain their birth surname, and have "épouse Charton" written behind it (Madame XXX épouse Charton). But in the north of France, some families like to concatenate husband name and wife birth name. Children normally bear the name of their father, but recent laws allowed this to be changed. But keep in mind that this first name - surname convention is not always observed.
ReplyDeleteIt gets even worse with "middle names". These greatly change from one country to the other. Russians use the patronym (first name of the father, +ich, +a), as in Ivan Ivanovich, Invana Ivanovna, Americans almost always have one, which they use a lot (or at least the initial of it), and which is made in various ways, but europeans sometimes have none, or seldom use it (I have three first names, the two last ones being almost never used).
As for Chinese names, the habit of changing the order is relatively recent. For instance, you'll never see Mao or Deng being referred to as Zedong Mao, or Xiaoping Deng. Newspapers and books usually keep the right order. I wonder to which extent this habit of changing the order wasn't started by some chinese (from Hong Kong and Singapore), as a way "to make it simpler", and because many of them use western first names (which they put in front of their surnames). But basically, I think it is common knowledge in the west that chinese names are written the other way around.
This reflects my sentiments perfectly!!! Unfortunately, I've had to bow to pressure to use my English name when I had always wanted to be known by my Cantonese name. But to no avail.
ReplyDeleteI use "kaimunyim" because Westerners will inevitably address me as Ms Mun if I choose to use "yimkaimun".
I think part of the problem lies with our own people who are so unaccepting of their own names, as if it were "uncool" or "unhip". My mum doesn't have an English name, never had. So when I asked her why did she have to burden us with an English name, she had no answer. And rightly so. Pfft.
Actually, outside of non-Catholic denominations, I have never met any Christian who was required by his church to take on a Western baptismal name. My father chose to, and added Joseph to his IC. My mum steadfastly refused to choose a baptismal name because, as our pastor explained, such a trend among Christians is purely cultural and has nothing to do with religion (unlike Islam, where a convert takes on an Islamic name).
ReplyDeleteThere are many peers in my church who were not given Western names at birth but have bowed to the inevitable pressure to choose one for themselves. Most of them sound ridiculous, I'm afraid to say, as do the majority of the names chosen by those who were similarly only given Chinese names at birth.
I dream of the day when Chinese names will become default.
Yes, there is no requirement - it is up to individuals. A guy from my uni even got a Buddhist name for himself - Dharma.
ReplyDeleteOne can be baptised without a baptism name.
But one cannot really call one's existing name (be it Chinese or some other native language of the individual) as a baptism name unless the name itself has some Biblical significance to begin with.
I think many Singaporeans who uses names like Alice or John may not even be Christians to begin with, so these aren't Christian names, perhaps term these as "English names"?
The phenomena of people in multi-cultural settings, or in cross-cultural settings, adopting new names for new environments, is not unique in recent times. Even the people of China in the past who sojourned to foreign lands for significant amount of time did so, including those who became the Babas.
Or look at it another way - historical Chinese like Zhu Yuanzhang and Zheng Chenggong were born with different names which they used to adulthood, but adopted new names themselves in reflection to their new aspirations. While adopting style-names was a cultural norm, some figures changed or adopted new names several times at different phases of their lives.
In principle, I do not see it any significance difference in adopting a new name in the Chinese (or one's native) language and a new name in a different language.
I have a Thai nickname myself given to me by my then colleagues, it is more for fun than anything else.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is not in having a new name. I am known as Ur to most of you. Some like Thomas Chen insist on calling me UrofPersia every single time. The main thrust to me is about how one's name can shape our identity..
There was a forummer on CHF by nick of Yap Giok Nio (something like that) 叶玉娘. She was an Indonesian who moved to Holland with her family. During her father's time they, probably because of circumstances changed their names to something unchinese like. Now years later she wants to change her name to a Chinese one but she faced strong opposition from her father who apparently disliked the idea and saw it as a betrayal of his identity.
A name can have a lot of meaning. In a multicultural society, or to be more exact an increasingly de-sincised Singapore (where more kids speak English at home, know more about Christmas than the Mid-Autumn festival, read, think, listen to English media and literature) it is all the more important that they use their Chinese name as a constant reminder of their culture.
I am not speaking from a high pedestal here. I feel this personally because this is pretty much my experience growing up. My interest in Chinese history and broader culture came about through happenstance and honestly had I not met certain peoples, etc, there is a good chance I might be one of those Chinese Singaporeans who snob their noses at all things Chinese, where Chinese is actually used as perjorative. (This happens all the time in Singapore)
I am saying that in an increasingly globalised community, all the more we should use our Chinese names less we start on the path to losing our cultural identity.
As a Christian perhaps you can understand why some Christian parents would want to give their children names of biblical origin. Precisely because the names are of significance, and a constant reminder to them of their identities, in this case as Christians. Likewise, I feel our Chinese names can have the same significance with regards to our culture, and a constant reminder of our cultural roots.
A culture cannot only exist as something to be appreciated intellectually or limited to certain cultural activities. It must be lived else it will die.
Yes, thus what I wrote in my earlier post and I quote again:
ReplyDelete"In the case of Singapore, unless for religious reasons I can't think of a good reason to get Western names. I think some Singaporeans perceive that Western names are cooler and more trendy, much the same way some Chinese are giving themselves Japanese names because they think its cooler as well."
I agree that when you go to a foreign land an adoption of a foreign is often a necessity especially in the past. But it becomes worrying when in Singapore, where we are the majority and our culture is not being suppressed, so many Chinese Singaporeans see it as a necessity to give Western names to their children.
Now, I am not really sounding any death-knell for Chinese culture here. All things considered, Singapore is still one of the best place to be culturally Chinese tempered with a sense of perspective that it is one culture out of many. Most Chinese Singaporeans even those with Westernised names, Christians or otherwise do not reject their Chinese culture. We know that. But we need be mindful of how culture is easily lost and our role in preserving it.
This may be true in France or maybe even Europe but my experience with North Americans is that most are unaware of our naming convention and continue to insist on calling me Mr. Ming unless I "help" make their life easier and start refering to myself as Jieming Liang.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I like our new incoming UN Secretary General. He keeps his Surname in front and not as a Lastname. I respect that kind of strength.
I'm taking more of the position that there is an evolutionary aspect as well as a preservative aspect to cultures throughout history.
ReplyDeleteI am confident that Chinese culture will remain, but it will not be the same as those of our ancestors.
Thus, I'd observe and analyse it with a wholistic approach rather than focus on any particular aspect, such as whether a Chinese girl uses the name 惠恩 or Grace.
The 'cool factor' is part of a "herd mentality" which I think will always exist among people.
I did wonder about something though - the Japanese. At first, I thought hardly any Japanese, even the most ardent imitators of Western culture, has adopted Western names.
Recently though, I found out that it is not completely true - some did and use Hiragana characters in part of their names instead of wholly Kanji, especially those in the entertainment circles. While they hardly go for "Mary" or "Celeste", I attribute it primarily due to environmental factors.
#1 No culture survives unchange upon contact with another
ReplyDelete#2 Culture will only be preserved when people feel strongly enough about it
For those who have read my posts on CHF with regards to this topic you will recall I do not believe culture is something static. And In fact I have at least once on a humourous note mention that the Chinese culture we have today is different from the Chinese culture of the past.
I use culture here in a broader sense. It encompasses a set of behaviours,practices and mindset. In a globalised world we are moving towards a situation wher we have a single monolithic culture with but regional variations. Oh, the process is slow, but thousand of cultures have already been lost since human beings first started totalitarian agriculture.
Singaporeans are in a sense more vulnerable to cultural influences because we do not have strong cultural identity. Neither do we have a strong national identity which I would have preferred in place. Rather you see more and more Singaporeans turning to religion for a sense of identity and community lessenig their ties to ethnic or national culture. Contrast this with say catholicism in the Philippines when the religion is strongly interwined with local culture even with elements of syncretism that today you can't even divorce the two.
At the end of the day, I am not really asking for a lot. Just to use our Chinese names. Its a small but I believe significant step in building a strong identity for ourselves not only as ethnic Chinese but as Singaporeans in touch with our cultural heritage to be comfortable with our place as Asians in Asia instead of Westernised 'citizens of the world' who just happen to be living in Asia at the moment.
For me personally, the use of Chinese name in my own life has been ... enigmatic, for the want of a better word.
ReplyDeleteI was not born in Singapore. Though I was given a Chinese name at birth, I had a totally different name in the official documents, since Chinese names weren't allowed (though the relevant government today continue to deny it was banned). I only made my Chinese name official when I had a deed pool done prior to getting my PR in Singapore. When I was baptised, I did not choose to have a baptismal name.
For many years in Singapore, my Chinese name was only used during Chinese Language classes. At other times, for all other purposes, it had to be the official name. Until I took up Singapore citizenship, my passports only had my official name, so any attempt to use my Chinese name in many contexts taken for granted by Chinese Singaporeans would have caused me endless trouble.
I suppose I belong to a group of unfortunate people who face this problem due to historical political troubles. Thankfully, the root of the problem should be no more, and the number of people affected should be decreasing with time.
Think so? Not quite. The ripples caused will not die even into the next generation.
I got 2 children now, and during their birth registrations, I made the decisive step to severe the link to the original official surname, and retain only the Chinese surname which was in my deed pool, which is in Hanyupinyin.
The irony about Singapore government adopting Mandarin is that I have never encountered a Chinese Singaporean who was not a recent migrant whose dialect is Mandarin.
Li Guangyao is Lee Kuan Yew. Chinese Singaporeans who only has Mandarin names and no dialect names is usually perceived as recent migrant from China, with all the associated connotations.
Thus, my wife warned me that my children who have no dialect names might be treated as children of migrants from China, or possibly, those who do not know might thought my wife is a "study mama".
In a way, the Chinese names are bizarre with probably no equivalent anywhere else in the world.
What computer system would be smart enough to know that Mr. Leong Kit Meng is also Mr. Liang Jieming and give a match?
I do value my Chinese name, and I do note that many Singaporean Chinese do not value it the way I do since they never experienced what I had to go through.
I had to make efforts to establish my own Chinese ethnicity in a way not possible under my original citizenship, to inherit the cultural heritage I was officially denied.
In a way, what many Chinese Singaporeans took for granted, I had to fight for.
And Lee Hsien Loong's children uses Hanyu Pinyin for their names as well, no 'dialect' names. So too for many children born in the late 80s in Singapore, their names are romanised using Hanyu Pinyin. No dialect versions. You can check with some of your younger colleagues in their very early 20s you can confirm this. I know this to be true for my young cousins.
ReplyDeleteAs for giving a match, that is why we have our Chinese names, go with the Chinese characters. Whether Wade-Giles or Hanyu Pinyin they are but attempts at romanising our names for the English language for different 'dialects'. It is written the same in the Chinese script. Happens with other cultures as well.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I think folks such as yourself treasure their cultural heritage more so than many of us, who like you say take it for granted, and in fact come to slight it.
SnowyB, that is highly commendable.
ReplyDeleteI am not aware of children not using their dialect names anymore in their BC or NRIC - I better find out more about the generation younger than our little Sister Mok.
ReplyDeleteI think it is only because these heritage is not something that was there for the taking that I appreciated them and understood them in a different way - like a deaf who gains hearing.
And because of that, I also understood that appreciation and understanding is important and must have relevance to the life of the individual if it is to be of any significance for anyone, be it Chinese Singaporeans or anyone else.
I can understand if for some people, they put more significance on other things rather than their cultural heritage and thus prefer to be Tony rather than Zhang San.
But for those who slight it, I can only attribute it to inferiority complex and insecurities.
A confident person do not need to put any one or anything down.
I might be mistaken but MKY's personal name is in Hanyu pinyin, no dialect version. Now there has been some unfair accusations that our dear government is forcing people to register their children's name in Hanyu Pinyin. This is simply not true. Its your child, you can name him/her/it whatever you want. *However* I suspect they tend to strongly encourage using Pinyin not by official policy but simply through due process. During my time (Darn, I feel old) you have these matronly folks at the birth registrar where you give them your Chinese names they will happily romanise them for you. Today they give it to you in Pinyin. It is hardly a secret that LKY prefers mandarin to be *the* Mother Tongue of the Chinese here. I personally have nothing against that and I can understand the reasons behind it. However there is corresponding loss of our sub-ethnic culture (in my case the Hakkas). This again drives home my point how much influence a simple name can have.
ReplyDeleteConsider that most Chinese Singaporeans have no idea how to romanise names either in Hanyu Pinyin or any other form for their dialect names (How very sad and another reflection of how important Chinese Singaporeans view this issue) they will just take what is given. They are probably more concerned with giving what they feel are nice sounding Western names and in some cases nice-sounding Chinese names. Some mothers are very keen on the Western names, because if their family is traditional, the name of the children will be decided by the Paternal Grandparents, so for the mothers it is their chance to leave their 'mark' on their children. It was what my Mother did. ;-)
My surname is in fuchew dialect but not my Chinese names. However my names are not in Mainland China's spelling format indicating I am not from Mainland China. Anyway the Taiwanese spelt their names in Mandarin pronunciation and it is not the same spelling as the Mainland Chinese. However both their surnames and their names are in Mandarin pronunciation where as my surname is in fuchewnese. And as you all know I have one Christian name.
ReplyDeleteHowever I don't think my Chinese names are spelt in Taiwanese spelling neither.
My surname is in fuchew dialect but not my Chinese names. However my names are not in Mainland China's spelling format indicating I am not from Mainland China. Anyway the Taiwanese spelt their names in Mandarin pronunciation and it is not the same spelling as the Mainland Chinese. However both their surnames and their names are in Mandarin pronunciation where as my surname is in fuchewnese. And as you all know I have one Christian name.
ReplyDeleteYes, Ur is right. My official name is Yim Jia Min, Julie-Ann. Yim being my dialect surname, Jia Min being the Hanyu Pinyin of what should rightly be Kai Mun or Kai-man (HK romanisation). I'm sorely pissed at our govt and to some extent the registrar for ever suggesting the travesty of Hanyu Pinyin name with a dialect surname. As I once snarked, it should be Yan Jiamin or Yim Kai Mun, or not at all!
ReplyDeleteI've yet to gain my parents' approval to change my name deed poll to just simple "Yim Kai Mun". My English name I will retain by adding a (Julie-Ann Yim) below it. And, when I change jobs, I will insist on using only my Chinese name. Surely that can be worked out.
No reason it can't! Kit Meng and myself are living proof. :-)
ReplyDeleteI think chinese always ask what is your surname first then the last name .
ReplyDelete